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God must multiply back my offering??!?
By Ern Sheong | April 22, 2009
I was from City Harvest Church KL and Singapore for over 2 years before coming to Berkeley. I must say that when I was there it felt good. I felt spiritually fulfilled. But later I came to Berkeley and looked back at the kind of gospel City Harvest was teaching, I felt kinda disgusted.
Something provoked me in my heart in the past every time someone goes up on stage to give a testimony in City Harvest KL and Singapore. The story always goes like this: they pledged a large sum of money to the church and gave sacrificially to the church (something which I am not against, but would encourage every believer to give genuinely and to give more, and this is a challenge for myself too), but then they add that God blessed them and they bought large houses, new luxurious cars (BMWs, Lexus and Mercedes, etc) and then they praise God for all that He has done in their lives.
Surely Jesus was not rich with luxuries, and he did not live a luxurious life.
I came to a much more traditional church in Berkeley called Gracepoint Fellowship Church with a very strong community of faith and living out of the Word, which challenged me a lot since I came from City Harvest. But later on my eyes came to be opened that the Prosperity Gospel preached by many churches in Malaysia and Singapore right now (they are growing exponentially) might be the wrong false teaching that the Bible was warning all of us about. It is no surprise that such churches are growing like crazy, given the promise of prosperity in their lives. You can be saved and seek riches at the same time, who wouldn’t want that?
Today I was curious what was being preached in City Harvest KL recently. I wanted to verify and see whether CHC KL was really a Prosperity Gospel church. I went online and heard John Avanzini’s preaching over the last weekend, entitled “The offering that God must multiply back to you“, dated ”18 Apr 2009″ on the website. This very sermon is like the epitome of Prosperity Gospel teaching. Just listen to it. This sermon is the thing I have been hearing over and over again over the past 2 years, in one way or another, in the church. It sums up the Prosperity Gospel very succinctly, and now having heard it all over again, I am feeling disturbed about the Prosperity Gospel. The more surprising thing was: I was there for two years! If this sermon were preached in my church right now in Berkeley, everyone would have walked out or felt strongly against the sermon. It’s so different, the versions of the Gospels being preached.
I had problems with the following statements: “Jesus is rich” , “God will multiply back your offering to you” or “if your life doesn’t work out the way it should, there is something wrong with your giving” (not verbatim) and many many more in the sermon. Notice that he also quotes the Bible in everything that he says. The Bible can be quoted to support both ways, but ultimately I know that there is only one truth.
Now, I am not saying that God does not bless His children and His people. I am also not saying that if you are rich you are not in God’s will. But in the sermon you notice that the preacher is encouraging a desire to be rich and to give offering in such a way that “helps” you get more and more from heaven. In other words, giving in order to receive much more from God, not giving simply because I love Christ and want the money to work in the lives of many in the church and outside the church, for the love of the people.
I am also pretty provoked by some sort of race happening in Singapore (and even in Malaysia) right now among churches to have the largest congregation, and to build the largest or most state-of-the-art looking churches in the “marketplace.” When I left CHC Singapore, they were in the midst of raising funds for a very large stadium! Another church in Singapore is also moving to built a multimillion dollar shopping center in Bueno Vista in which they will also house their church auditorium. It might not be wrong, but I just feel that there is something provoking in my heart about it. Why the need to be showy and be seen like that in the marketplace? (Oh yeah, I heard the arguments before in CHC Singapore. But does it capture the humility and message of the Cross most effectively?)
I open this for discussion. Comments welcome. Let’s discuss this.
Topics: Christianity | 24 Comments »
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Reposted from Shoutbox:
JODIAS: Lin, I agree with you, God bless his Children, but the way this prosperity gospel is now being preached really encouraging earthily riches, not Jesus
Guest: Ern Sheong, a very true post about offering. I totally agree with what you said. It’s getting very disgusting that churches these days are preaching about giving to God just so that he will return us with more! It’s time we wake up and realise that it’s not how much we give that’s important, but our heart’s true desire to bless God’s kingdom, while not expecting anything in return. It’s only when God sees a pure heart that he will bless us back abundantly. I pray that God will open your eyes to the things unseen and continue to guide you as you serve the true Him, and not man!
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Hi,
I was blog hopping and then I found your blog! =)
Anyway, I’m a free thinker but I must say that your p.o.v. pretty much sum up the exact thing that is happening within the church community.
Just the other day I received one pamphlet from a new local church. In the pamphlet, various testimonies from the members of this church were “telling” me (and those who read the pamphlet too I believed) of all the wonderful things that God had done in their lives…and it all has to be about God giving them financial rewards…=.=
Well of course, being rich is not a sin but… portraying God as some money-giver???
I simply cannot digest this idea.
And oh, for all this while, I thought only non-Christians might have noticed this. Didn’t quite expect a Christian to have some thoughts about it =)
Nice blog you have here!
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:46 pm
hey my dear,
yeap i so agreed with your views on this ! i noticed it when i was in my church in Aussie as well …. how much they contradicted themselves now that i am out of the system…. i hope to catch you online so we can discuass more about this !
April 24th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Hey I have talked to you once about this topic on MSN…
To be honest I am always in a state of fear when it comes to building fund season, mission fund season, having speakers that preached on biblical economics e.g. Rev John Avanzini.
The reason is that the church is filled with young people, therefore peer pressure is very strong. It feels socially unacceptable if I don’t give generously. Sometimes I think the feeling to give everything I have is not exactly from God but from those around me.
I always question myself when I listen to the testimonies that talk about financial blessings. “Why don’t I get the same treatment(from God)? Have I not given enough? Is this a sign that I should give more?”
In my opinion, there are so many testimonies because being blessed is not something new! It’s happening everywhere in the church and out of the church… and since the church is big.. statistically that’s bound to happen so there are members being blessed.
Another thing is that alot of members are the social elites… they are surrounded by rich parents, rich relatives and friends… so getting a car, a laptop is no big deal to them.
April 25th, 2009 at 1:28 am
@anonymous:
hi there. yeah i remember the conversation i had with you
the thing is not about giving but about the whole ideology of CHCKL, which is based largely on the “prosperity gospel.” Question is, is the notion of God being a sugar daddy to His people true? Is he just a rewarder, and are we looking too much to the reward and not the One who gives these rewards.
I suggest looking into the bible for answers, not the verses which CHC likes to preach to the pulpit like malachi 3:10 and other pauline verses which I think do not necessarily refer to money (Paul himself was never rich, Peter died being crucified upside down) looking at these people and comparing them to the lives CHC and other prosperity churches want us to live today as rich and blessed people, i see a large disparity.
i have seen CHC Singapore Pastor Tan YP preaching the story of the rich young ruler and concluding that it was not his riches, but that his focus was wrong or something like that, that was in fact wrong, then justifying in the end that it was not the riches that was to blame. you have to be careful about the interpretation being presented and examine the claims on your own.. which i suggest that you do. go look up some books like “money, possessions and eternity” by randy alcorn and many others and read them to weigh the arguments. also you might want to pray for the wisdom to see through and walk in the way that pleases the Lord…
April 26th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Have you ever thought… Giving God offering, and the offering shall be multiplied back to you.. Is in the sense of blessings? I mean it does not mean it must be money right..
And yea your post kinda makes me to realise that i wonder if church administrations nowadays are starting to see offerings accepted to be treated like business style, or perhaps most of them have not really read what God really want them to do about the money? that is something i do not know of though, but yea i think i read it across in the Bible.. nice post anyways.
April 27th, 2009 at 5:26 am
Seeing that I ‘can’t call myself coach here’
haha. Hi Ern Sheong. I think that was some of my misgivings placed on City Harvest Church… as well as some of those in my church. It is heartening to know that you have nonetheless grown in your love for Christ despite that and have been fed by your cell?
Interestingly, the more traditional churches which I attend (and might be more traditional than yours) place so much more stress on Warnings… almost like
gcc -ansi -pedantic -W -Wall (wah got so many warnings)… which doesn’t seem to be the thing that pleases a lot of people and increase the congregation. Nevertheless it seems that a good part of the growth of a church is also due to members… and not just the doctrine of the pastor (although it is fundamental).
Call me when you are free although finals week is coming soon.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
An article from http://www.gotquestions.org/prosperity-gospel.html that lends to the argument against the prosperity gospel:
Question: “What does the Bible say about the prosperity gospel?”
Answer: In the prosperity gospel, also known as the “Word of Faith,” the believer is told to use God, whereas the truth of biblical Christianity is just the opposite—God uses the believer. Word Faith or prosperity theology sees the Holy Spirit as a power to be put to use for whatever the believer wills. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person who enables the believer to do God’s will. The prosperity gospel movement closely resembles some of the destructive greed sects that infiltrated the early church. Paul and the other apostles were not accommodating to or conciliatory with the false teachers who propagated such heresy. They identified them as dangerous false teachers and urged Christians to avoid them.
Paul warned Timothy about “constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain…. But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. But flee from these things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness.” (1 Timothy 6:5, 9-11.)
Paul said covetousness is idolatry (Ephesians 5:5) and instructed the Ephesians to avoid anyone who brought a message of immorality or covetousness (Ephesians 5:6-7). Prosperity teaching prohibits God from working on His own, meaning that God is not Lord of all because He cannot work until we release Him to do so. Faith, according to the Word of Faith doctrine, is not submissive trust in God; faith is a formula by which we manipulate the spiritual laws prosperity teachers believe govern the universe. As in the name “Word of Faith” implies, this movement teaches that faith is a matter of what we say more than who we trust or what truths we embrace and affirm in our hearts.
A favorite term in the Word of Faith movement is “positive confession.” It refers to the teaching that words have creative power. What you say, Word of Faith teachers claim, determines everything that happens to you. Your confessions, especially the favors you demand of God, must all be stated positively and without wavering. Then God is required to answer (as though man could require anything of God!). Thus God’s ability to bless us supposedly hangs on our faith. James 4:13-16 clearly contradicts this teaching, “Come now, you who say, Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit. Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away. Instead, you ought to say, If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that. But as it is, you boast in your arrogance; all such boasting is evil.”
Far from stressing the importance of wealth, the Bible warns against pursuing it. Believers, especially leaders in the church (1 Timothy 3:3), are to be free from the love of money (Hebrews 13:5). The love of money leads to all kinds of evil (1 Timothy 6:10). Jesus warned, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions” (Luke 12:15). In sharp contrast to the Word of Faith emphasis on gaining money and possessions in this life, Jesus said “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal” (Matthew 6:19). The irreconcilable contradiction between prosperity teaching gospel and the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is best summed up in the words of Jesus in Matthew 6:24, “You cannot serve God and riches.”
April 30th, 2009 at 1:24 am
Ern Sheong,
Let me begin by saying those churches’ emphasis on prosperity or grace or Word of Faith has been a great blessing from God to many. I have read testimonies from people from NCC and CHC who have grown immensely in their relationship with God.
But this does not go to say that I support these teaching. In fact, when I read the title of Rev. John Avanzini’s sermon, I was disgusted because of the word “MUST”. Then I went to New Creation Church’s website under (We Believe: How the Cross Applies to You) and this was what I saw, “Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour will not only save you from sin and hell, but also give to you health, joy, peace, love, hope, unconditional acceptance, favour, the power to get wealth, all good things you can think of and more.”
In my point of view, these prosperity preachers/ grace preachers are portraying God to be more like Santa Claus from Heaven, instead of a true God who wants our total surrender to Him. However, please note that I am not trying to say that God is a demander or a commander. What I’m trying to say is that He wants us to be conduits of blessing to others. However, sad to say but I think those prosperity teaching’s concept of blessings is mainly about material wealth and health…
It irks me even more when they use scriptures from the Bible to back their teachings. Among those: 2 Corinthians 9:8, Deut 8:18. This is because they tend to miss out verses such as Luke 12:15 and Phil 4:19.. Let’s take 2 Corinthians 9:8 as an example:- the goal of those divine supplies is not primarily the believer’s wealth or personal pleasure. God supplies so that believers may abound in every good work, so that they will be free from worry over necessities and able to focus on fulfilling the commands of God.
However, I’m not implying that all those prosperity/ grace preaching are cults because they are Not. After all, they do not deny Christ’s divinity.
Let me end by editing a phrase by Rev. Dr. Gordon Wong said, “My prayer is that God will use the Prosperity or Grace preachers’ gifts of preaching to even more blessed effect as they allows the Holy Spirit to convict him (graciously, as always) of areas that could be improved.”
May God Bless You too, Ern Sheong
May 2nd, 2009 at 4:59 pm
@Free Thinker:
Your comment is testimony of how even non-Christians can see better than many Christians in the church today. They can spot something wrong even though they are not Christian and do not know anything about the Bible or about Christianity.
This should lead some of us as Christians to examine our own lives and see for ourselves whether we are really following Christ as the Word tells it to us, or following some adorned and modified version of the Gospel, in which the God we serve is not God himself, but Money or “Mammon” as stated in the Bible.
So I am glad that you voiced out your comment here. Gives us Christians a view that non-believers are observing and wondering about our lives as Christians. This brings the notion that the “title” Christian is not to be taken at face value. In fact, wearing the “Christian” title has many implications about our lives and it requires us to change a lot of things about our lives. It is not just about salvation and saying the sinner’s prayer. Your whole life belongs to God.
May 2nd, 2009 at 5:15 pm
@ KJ:
I appreciate your thoughts on this. Yes, I believe that despite the tragic misrepresentation of an important issue in Christian life these churches are indeed bringing in more people into the church and to at least know Christ, and perhaps hopefully they would (like myself) find out for themselves the true version of the gospel.
However it must be remembered that Jesus said verses like Luke 4:46-49 and one very disturbing verse to many of us:
Matthew 7:
21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Seeing this, I think that acknowledging and not denying the divinity of Christ is not enough in Christian life. The verses above should cause one to think.
I thought to myself before where does all the power in health and wealth churches to heal and to do miracles come from. I think I saw some in CHC, before. I thought I witnessed healings, and I definitely witnessed exorcisms during those 2 years in CHC. I also don’t know what to make of the slaying in the spirit near the stage during services. I also don’t know what to make of the huge force that knocked me off my standing position during Benny Hinn’s stadium conference in Singapore. These experiential things might be of God, but they might not be. Perhaps the miracles are not of God, perhaps they are, I don’t know and I won’t say any more of that. But keep in mind that the devil’s goal is to drive us away from God, and he can do this in ways that make us flock to something that looks like Christianity but is not the true Gospel.
Yeah I realize, who am I to comment so much anyway. Just a helpless and small guy in a relentless and fiery world who wants to honor God in small footsteps.
I believe that God will draw those who fervently seek Him to Himself, if their hearts are right before Him. He who seeks finds, and he who asks receives.
God Bless you too, KJ
May 4th, 2009 at 12:36 am
Ern Sheong,
Thank you for your insightful reply. I come from one of the Pentecostal movement churches in Sarawak. We lean more toward the gifts of the Spirit and Baptism of the Holy Spirit. We believe that speaking in tongues (in the book of Acts) and slaying are because of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. But you posted a good question which I don’t think we are in the position to answer it.
I would equate the church I go to now to be similar to the one you are attending in Berkeley though there are some people in my church who portrays God to be a Heavenly Santa Claus as portrayed in those prosperity and grace preaching (that focuses on material wealth and health per se) in my point of view. They think that the gospel of Christ is what is important. So long as you believe the gospel with all your heart, because that is what makes us a part of the body of Christ. Salvation a gift from Jesus.
As for me (with the strong influence from my Dad), I think we should always use our earthly intellect to decipher the Word of God instead of taking it at face value. Likewise I still listen to the sermons of Pastor Joseph Prince and read Pastor Kenneth Hagin’s writings but I analyze its doctrines along the way. But I commend David Wilkerson’s and David Pawson’s teachings!!
Well, I am still not affected by what some people in my church think because that is not what is preached on the pulpit on Sundays. However, after reading your post, I thought about it and I told my Dad that if prosperity gospel is what is being preached on Sundays, I might reconsider my decision to go to church.
Therefore, the problem with a lot of people is Ignorance. Ignorance to the extent that they claim the one preaching the gospel has healed from critical illnesses. I thank God when I see a miracle and healing (which is evidently based on a medical report), but I also remember that fruits of a ministry is not as one-dimensional as what some people assume.
This isn’t to say I am intellectual when it comes to the Bible. In fact, Some of the parables I read are way over my head (in terms of the underlying meaning), even if they are easy to understand. There’s still so much I need to learn; in fact I’m still so far back that I need to learn what is it I need to learn. And we ain’t just talking head knowledge here either!!
Anyway, thank you for inspiring me to work harder in His direction. Thank you for reminding me about James 4:13-16. Despite your pack schedule juggling between studies, assignments and C.A., your have written lucidly!! We live in a culture where we celebrate health, wealth and well-being. Indeed these are good things, but so is a little suffering, and a little pain.
God speed.
May 16th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Dear Ern Sheong,
Being a member of CHCKL I would not agree with what you have said. In the two years in CHC, I believe you have seen how lives has been touched and changed. People going back their respective home with a different attitude. I am a product of CHCKL. The only cure to materialism is to give, and I am sure you have heard this.
In many of the sermons preached by Pst Kong, he siad it again and again that God does not promotes that we live lavishly, but through our riches the work of the gospel would be funded.
Besides that, if you have been faithful in your two years with CHC, i am sure you have seen the manifestation of the works of the Holy Spirit. People that are healed and restored. The amount of time we spend in doing Bible study, not to say the many prayer meetings we had with strong presence of God.
I personally feel that we need to be balance. Speakers like Bro John comes once in a year to teach our people to give. it’s not a sermon that we preach every week.
Personally, I am qualified to comment, because I am in this church, and through the years, I have been taught to live a faith filled life. I personally know many of the leaders that would empty up their accounts again and again for the works of the gospel and not because they want to live luxuriously.
i hope to provide some balance to this discussion.
have a great weekend!
fellow Christian
May 16th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Dear Ern Sheong,
It’s a sermon snapshot from one weekend. That’s not fair of you to criticize after being away for so long and not hearing the “entire truth” being preached.
I rather you not give, then to give half-heartedly to the works of the Kingdom of God. Your predisposition towards money and God is flawed. Does not the Vatican has a lot of money, own lands, and buildings, and expensive artworks? Riches that are passed down from generation to generation to ensure that the works for expansion and influence of God’s Kingdom will be well financed.
Show me a verse in the Bible that exemplifies God not “multiplying” or “returning” giving and sacrifices. If God so lays down the foundation of physics, and the law of seed time and harvest time, God so lays down the framework of giving and receiving too.
Having said that, a tree is known by its fruit. There’s a season to give, and a season to receive. Do not limit God.
God bless,
CH
May 18th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Thanks for your contirbution CH. It’s amazing!
Its also fair to look at the community work, and the missions work that is ever so active in CHC.
Through my years in CHC, i have seen countless of lives restored and relationships being strengthened through the teaching of the Word.
Let’s be balance.
May 20th, 2009 at 1:50 am
I truly disagree of what ern sheong has comment.
Let us understand what has said in mal 3:8-12 and the principle of sowing and reaping.
How about God had provided king David with such great abundance that prepared Solomon to build god the great temple?
With these what god has taught, are we saying god is shallower minded to teach us as long we sow more we’ll reap more. I believe the sowing act is to move god hands on our earthly ministry for his kingdom
Mind that those who are blessed with good cars or houses after they sowed, do you think that served lesser after that? No instead they even serve at greater horizon.
One word: dont be an apologetic Christian
Thanks balance and ch on ya comments.
June 1st, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Hi Ern Sheong,
God is leading you on the right track out of the heretical WOF teaching of churches like CHC. Stay strong and hold fast to the true Gospel.
The Gospel is what men and women need to hear to believe unto salvation of their souls. It is a serious matter when one fails to make a full and accurate presentation of Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is a serious matter when one twists the Gospel and perverts it. It is a serious matter when one presents a “false Christ”.
Many within the WOF fraternity like CHC simply present Jesus as simply a mean to an end. To suit to their whims and fancies of their own humanistic theology and bellies, they present a false “christ” and a perverted “gospel”. This perversion of the Gospel invitation sadly robs Christ of His true accomplishments in the Cross and the Glory due to God alone. This type of false and perverted Gospel invitation directs sinners away from true faith and repentance found in Jesus Christ alone. Such perversion of the Gospel turns sinners to seek a “lesser god”, more like a “golden calf”, definitely not the Lord Jesus Christ and God of the Bible .
This is a serious matter. The souls of men and women depends on the hearing of the true and pure Gospel. No one claiming to follow the Lord Jesus Christ should be perverting the Gospel nor be found supporting those who do pervert it.
Shalom
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:50 am
Dear Shalom,
how them by you condemning the church that God has allowed to be established make you a better Christian? If Jesus has not judged the prostitutes, the tax collector or the sinners in the Bible, why would you judge a church that you never even stepped foot into?
does your action manifest Christ in any extend? or bringing more disunity to the church of God?
balance
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:49 am
Dear Balance,
It is sad FACT that CHC teaches a Word of Faith (WOF) “gospel” which now Ern Sheong (the owner of this blog) has stated that he now “felt kinda disgusted”.
CHC continues to invite well-known WOF heretics like Benny Hinn and John Avanzini to the pulpits at CHC to spew their “health and wealth gospel” poison and heretical teachings to the young people at CHC. These are FACTS, sad ones.
Did Jesus Christ agonizes at Gethsemane and suffered greatly at Calvary cross to do the Father’s will so that He can make disciples to be rich and healthy ?
It is a sad fact that the “health and wealth” perversion of the Gospel robs the Lord Jesus Christ of the glory of His true accomplishments on the cross to redeem sinful and condemned souls both men and woman for the glory of God.
================
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel– not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:6-10
==================
CHC / Kong Hee keeps saying that the Gospel has to be presented anew for the 21st Century ? Have you ask yourself, what has CHC and Kong Hee been saying ?
Why is CHC and Kong Hee ashamed of the true Gospel which the bible described as “stumbling block” and “foolish” to people ?
Don’t be deceived. STOP this perversion of the Gospel !!
The Word of God has very strong warnings and uses very strong language against to any and all those who twist and pervert the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Shalom
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes
June 18th, 2009 at 7:57 am
Dear Ern Sheong,
What I can say here is that, I think you guys are just quoting the word of the bible and not engaging it. For all i know, if you were to give to God or his church He will never short change you. Not even once. I have been giving to the building fund all my life, I have been blessed and never once i went poor giving offering and building fund sacrificial. Therefore I am never afraid to give when it is a giving season. At the same time, it also enable me test my faith in God believing for greater blessing. You got to be dump to not want God’s blessing to pour into your life. Have you ever seen a person that gives and have been a broke all their life? It is always about the ground that you are planting your seed(offering)on. For all i know, CHC is a good ground where I plant my seed and never once I’ve not been blessed. Sometimes its about patient. If a faithful man like Abraham can wait for for till he is 100 year old to have his son. How about us? Furthermore, God tested him to sacrifice his son. It means to say that if God can bless you, he can also take it away if your not faithful to him.
The reason why people share countless testimony in front about financial blessing is for you to not miss that opportunity for God to bless you. If it had happen to you, why not share it to others. The blessing had come to me before so why can’t I share it. Therefore, what I can say here is that I think that your just finding excuses not to give and by writing this post it is merely encourage those that have the same level of faith as you to agree with you. I felt “disgusted” by your perception toward giving and preacher who had come to preach about offering. I strongly think is that it is not the giving for your case. It is about the character your showing toward giving. I think by not giving your just playing the same character like the servant with only one talent in the parable of the talent. Hide your talent and you’ll know the outcome of that story.
I guess by writing to you it wouldn’t help much.Well, guess you just have to learn in the hard way sometimes.
Someone
June 18th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
@Reaping sower:
what do you mean by “don’t be an apologetic Christian”?
—
the primary thing that i do not agree with here is the large focus of certain churches on the prosperity factor of the gospel, such that desires to be rich and prosperous are becoming more common among the church goers in these prosperity gospel churches.
Christianity is not about financial blessings. Jesus did not die on the cross so that sinners could become rich and drive mercedes and live in bungalows. I believe that God will meet my needs and provide for my living, in that way I do not need to worry about my life in that sense. but to think that God will have to give me back materially just because I am giving to the church is erroneous. God can give back in various forms of blessings, but the prosperity church focuses too much about the material part of that blessing. God can also bless me richly in financial ways, but that is to be used to be a larger blessing to others, not to spend it on myself and live a lavish lifestyle; but rather it calls for more giving toward the kingdom of God.
anyway, thanks for all your comments. i end by saying that I might be wrong in my ways and views and attitudes, but I fear Him and just want to try my best to live out the true Gospel, and as I see it right now the prosperity gospel is not the true Gospel.
June 23rd, 2009 at 5:02 pm
I believe all of us are “works in progress”, no one is perfect, learning to live out our Faith, being more like Jesus; no one is perfect. I’ve learned a lot just by reading the replies.
As for the subject of offering and blessing, I’m convicted that our God is almighty, nothing is impossible for Him, He can bless us in many ways, some even far beyond our imaginations, financial blessing can also be one of them. God wants the best for His children, if we can afford a nice car and a bigger house, why not? I don’t see any reason why God is against that as long as money is not ‘controlling’ us.
I always dissect my blessings into several portions: Tithe, offering, savings, investment… also when there is building fund, mission fund or humanitarian project. In the mean time, I never stop shopping for things that I like, getting gifts for my wife and parents, being a blessing to others.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Ernsheong, (or Jonathan as we call you here),
I agree with what you and others have written here regarding the different gospel message that is being taught by health and wealth churches..
I don’t need to add much more here, just some answers to the questions that some proponents of
prosperity gospel has posed:
Question: “Have you ever seen a person that gives and have been a broke all their life?”
My Answer: Yes.
* Apostle Paul for one.. having to work his way as a tentmaker most of his life, died in a Roman prison.
* Apostle Peter and Apostle John for another… said to the beggar: “Silver or Gold I do not have, but what I have I give you..” Were they lying when they said that they don’t have silver or gold? Peter was killed, and John died an exile on an island.
* Jesus gave it all and died on the cross. What was his “return” in terms of earthly blessings?
Question: Show me a verse in the Bible that exemplifies God not “multiplying” or “returning” giving and sacrifices.
Answer: Read the entire chapter of Hebrews 11 — the famous “Hall of Faith” chapter that outlines the most exemplary people of faith. The conclusion of that chapter is that none of them received what was promised them.. yet they looked toward the heavenly city, not rewards on earth.
I think it’s okay for someone to preach about giving to the church. Preaching against hoarding your own wealth and giving freely is fine and even necessary. But it’s another thing to turn that around and say that God is all about blessing you in terms of earthly possessions.. If that’s true, it causes me to wonder if God blessed the people listed in Hebrews 11, if God blessed Apostle Paul or John or Peter or Jesus himself.
I think all of this discussion teaches an important lesson: you need to read your Bible in context, not just pull out a verse.
Thanks for the thoughtful post.
January 9th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
YOU MUST SEND THIS BLOG TO CHC’S PASTOR. LET HIM READ AND PERHAPS REPLY. ONLY FAIR THEN.